From: Dante-Gabryell Monson
Date: Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 1:10 PM
Subject: Re:
To: tim.r
Hi Tim,
I feel enthusiastic when reading your message.
I am certainly interested in the potential to build on your experience,
including what concerns legal frameworks.
I wish to inform some friends, including in cc Leander ( who is currently in Leipzig, and co-organizes the Fairventure event ) ,
and in bcc Anthony.
Leipzig sounds like a good opportunity to meet up and discuss such frameworks more in detail.
Regarding the legal framework, as a first step for me is the housing aspect,
I was considering the “Mietshauser syndikat” approach ( http://www.syndikat.org/ ) ,
which indeed combines all three : Verein, Genossenschaft , and Gmbh.
( yet there are more models I will consider , possibly trying out several models for different buildings : http://www.stiftung-trias.de/infomaterial.html )
Regarding the development of post-industrial manufacturing, this is a chapter in which people involved in the german chapter of open source ecology are more engaged in
http://osede.org/
http://oseeurope.org/2012/01/creating-ose-community-in-germany/
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki
I try to see if there is way in joining potentials regarding a wider span of infrastructure investment.
Rewig sounds like an interesting model to do so.
For the moment, I have been mostly into researching opportunities in Leipzig,
and now try to focus on buying a first building.
I do not have money of my own, so I depend on investors.
I prefer a model with no centralized ownership.
For the moment, I have a list of friends interested in putting forward a few thousand euros to buy their flat. If a partnership can be made with Mietshauser syndikat, by setting up our own legal framework first, 3/4 of the money can come via credit guaranteed by Mietshausersyndikat, which reduces the requirement for cash, per flat, to 2500 euros.
I also found an investor willing to make available 100 000 euros to buy an entire building in Leipzig, at the condition that he remains the sole investor,
while enabling us to live there without payment of rent for a few years.
I imagine this as a first step to converge friends to live and Leipzig and further the broader project.
I am thinking about a building which is already in a good livable condition, such as this one
http://www.immobilienscout24.de/expose/64017966?navigationbarurl=/Suche/S-14/Haus-Kauf/Sachsen/Leipzig/-/-/300,00-
Speak to you soon / see you soon,
Dante
On Mon, Apr 2, 2012 at 11:03 AM, Tim R wrote:
Dear Dante,
great to hear from you, I hope things are going well for you!
Also great to hear about the ecological ideas which you and your friends are trying to advance.
One of the many facets of the concept of regional economic communities is to provide a legal and communal framework for just such ideas!
My experience is that while it is “fairly easy” to have such ideas, it’s not so easy to implement them – so much to do with law and finances, contracts and obligations. The ReWiG München for example is a cooperative based on the above linked concept – and we’re currently about one year behind where we originally wanted to be, despite now having about 100 members, about 20 of which are more or less really active. But the good news is, we’re glad to support other initiatives with the know-how and official papers which we have accumulated on the way, so that others can have things go easier and quicker.
Please note that the concept is intended to be very flexible and all neccessary modifications for a local situation are welcome. If the local solution is still (within a large tolerance) close enough to the concept to be called a ReWiG, then the ReWiG München, which has patented the word ReWiG, will gladly concent to people using it. This in turn will qualify the initiative to participate in the “Rat der ReWiGs” Verband, where continuing exchange of experience and mutual support will be available.
As an example of flexibilty I mention the second ReWiG: ReWiG Schlehdorf eG. They are not yet planning to invest in local businesses nor to start a local currency – rather they are taking over an existing ecological farm which also offers nature experience for young people. But they have their hearts in the right place and they have founded a cooperative, and we’re glad to support them and grant the right to the name ReWiG. In a similar way I could well imagine a ReWiG in Leipzig initially dedicated to getting the projects you’re looking at instantiated, and at the same time being part of a movement could help (a) getting started, and (b) to expand horizons and take up further possible aspects of a ReWiG in due time (e.g. an own local currency and marketplace, or cooperation with local authorities).
Verein: I’d be a little bit careful if Verein is really the right vehicle. In Germany a Verein is traditionally a group a people furthering a pastime, sport or charity of some sort, or preserving local tradition and such things. Many of them are tax-exempt due to meeting the neccessary criteria for exemption. Normally a Verein is not associated with doing business. There IS however a type of legal body similar in quite a few ways to a Verein but intended for doing business, and that’s the Cooperative (Genossenschaft). There are constructs whereby a Verein is used as a tax-exempt body to aid donations, and uses a Plc (GmbH) or such as its business-arm (which can then make a profit), or others involving a foundation (for endowments), but personally I find these somewhat cumbersome – as though people are effectively trying to get around legal restrictions.
Leipzig: We’ll be at the fairventure Congress in Leipzig on 7. – 8. June this year, so that would be an opportunity to meet and discuss face to face.
Am 01.04.2012 14:01, schrieb Dante-Gabryell Monson:
parallel note ( sorry, in english – feel free to reply in german ) :
I wish to express my personal interest in the VAWT development process.
( but also in potentially parallel research, such as http://sharewiki.org/en/Tensegrity , including for VAWT structures )
Personally, I look forward to contribute, once I manage to set myself up in Berlin or Leipzig. ( am currently in Brussels )
A few , potentially converging points :
Regarding The construction place, and the legal platform , I may see some convergences I hope to be able to exploit together :
1)
I am attempting to further the Leipzig Housing Cooperative project , and potentially also abandoned factory space for post-industrial manufacturing ?
http://sharewiki.org/en/Leipzig_project
2)
I wish to set up a legal platform ( a “Verein” ) in Germany.
Who is willing to set up a Verein together in Germany ?
Did anyone set one up yet ?
Another option I consider, is the set up of a International Verein, in Belgium :
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AISBL
internationale VoG (Vereinigung ohne Gewinnerzielungsabsicht)
as to facilitate the convergence of money invested in such kind of projects.
( starting with the purchase of a first building in Leipzig )
///
I also wish to investigate the interest or feasibility of setting up a not for profit investment scheme, with as outcome local infrastructure for resilient local economics.
One inspiration , midst others, may be to adapt/tweak/collaborate with the following model
http://regionale-wirtschaftsgemeinschaft.info/infothek/initiativen/ ? ( I bcc Tim )
Cordially,
Dante